Annie Lush – Back in the race
In this episode of #TheSpeakerShow, Maria Franzoni interviews Annie Lush.
Annie is an Olympian, round the world sailor and quadruple World Champion. She has competed in the Volvo Ocean Race not once but twice and was part of first ever female team to win a leg of the race. Her biggest sailing challenge came when she broke her back in the middle of the Southern Ocean.
Alongside racing she works with teams and business to explore techniques to improve their performance, drawing on her experiences as a professional athlete and coach. She has strong insights in, leading under pressure, building resilience, and teamwork.
Annie is passionate about utilising sport for social change. She is one of the founders of The Magenta Project, an organisation created in 2015 that aims to advance women in professional sailing and inspire and support developing female sailors.
In this fascinating episode, we discuss:
- Successful and Resilient Teams
- Lessons learnt from Competitive Racing
- Success Strategies
- Changing Attitudes
- Performance – Does it make the boat go faster?
Episode audio & transcript
Connect with Speakers Associates
00:00:16 – 00:01:28
Hello. And welcome back to the speaker show with me your host, Maria Franzoni. In today’s show, we’ll be talking about business lessons you can learn from competitive sport. The speaker show is brought to you by speakers Associates, the global speaker bureau for the world’s most successful organisations, providing keynote speakers for events, conferences and summits. My guest is an Olympian around the world, sailor and quadruple world champion. She’s competed in the Volvo Ocean race not once but twice, and was part of the first ever female team to win a leg of the race. Her biggest sailing challenge came when she broke her back in the middle of the freezing Southern Ocean. Alongside racing, she works with teams and businesses to explore techniques to improve their performance. Drawing on her experience as a professional athlete and coach, she has strong insights into leading under pressure, building resilience and teamwork. She is passionate about utilising sport for social change. She is one of the founders of the Magenta Project, an organisation created in 2015 that aims to advance women in professional sailing and to inspire and support developing female sailors. Please welcome my very special guest today, Annie Lush. Annie. It is such a pleasure to have you with me today. How are you?
00:01:28 – 00:01:30
Very well, thank you.
00:01:30 – 00:01:42
Fantastic. I’m always curious as to how things start. So I would love to know from you. How on earth did you get inspired? What inspired you to pursue a career in competitive sport?
00:01:42 – 00:04:15
And that’s a good question. Actually, because it wasn’t straight route, I’d say I’m a sailor. That is my sport, which most people think of as kind of sipping gin and tonic on the back of the boat. Not quite what I do. Um, but I did start out sailing as a hobby for sure. Like I think most people with their pursuing a sport as a career and I’ve sailed since I was about seven. I was from Paul in Dorset on the South Coast, of U K. And actually, I think sailing was when I was young. It was really just a kind of freedom when we were teenagers. You know, before we could drive, we could sail somewhere and go and sit on the pool key and drink Coca Cola and, you know, feel quite cool and independent. So it was definitely, you know, that it was a kind of freedom, but I was quite competitive. Always. I think I did always want to win. Um, but I went to university and actually stopped sailing as competitively because I needed to to go and study, um, and then got completely hooked on another sport because I arrived at Cambridge University. And if anyone’s been there, rowing is a very big thing there. And if you’re quite tall, um, and look averagely strong, then before you know you’ve been collared into one of the rowing teams, which is what happened to me. So I started rowing for college. And then, of course, I’d seen the boat race on television, and I was told that might be a good idea to go on trial for that being quite competitive. That is what happened. And so I ended up trying for the boat race, which is a long, arduous process. But I loved being in a big team in a crew of eight or nine with the cops, and there’s actually a much bigger team because you have all the reserves. Um, so I ended up doing the boat race in 2001, and, uh, we won it just by I think it’s still the smallest recorded margin ever for the women’s boat race. Um, but yeah, when we crossed that finish line, it was the best feeling ever. In fact, we didn’t know we’d won. Then I think I was just being sick. But then after the photo finished, when we found out, we’d won, Yeah, it was the best feeling I’ve ever had. And I just remember thinking, I’ve got to do more of this. And I started going into It was my second year at university, and I started going for those sort of interviews you have with prospective jobs. I had a degree in geography, and I found that every single kind of careers fair I went to I was just finding, trying to find out how much holiday had and so how much sport I could do in the holiday. And I suppose it kind of realised that I didn’t want it to be my holiday job. I wanted to go to the Olympics, and, um, I wanted to be my career. So yeah
00:04:15 – 00:04:43
and you did? Yeah. And you did and you did. You went to the Olympics and you did the ocean race. You absolutely did, Which is fantastic. I love the fact that you described, um, sailing as gin and tonic on the back because that’s exactly how Iimagined it. And then when you talk about the rowing, you talk about being sick, and that just puts me off completely. But so many top competitors top athletes. You do get sick because you give everything, don’t you?
00:04:43 – 00:05:10
Yeah, I think, with rowing, it’s definitely if anyone’s been in one of those rowing machines in the gym? You know, it’s kind of like a torture chamber, because rowing really does sort of make your whole body work. And, yeah, when you get to this point when you’re pushing very hard, you have lactic acid build up when you’re going, you know, pushing that hard anaerobic activity and it does generally make you sick. So that’s the sign that you’ve worked quite hard, but the pain is definitely worth the reward if you win.
00:05:10 – 00:05:21
Okay, Okay, okay. And that’s actually interesting because that could be one of the lessons you take away and apply. What were the main lessons you learned from competing at the top level.
00:05:21 – 00:06:42
I think from the rowing at university it really taught me how to be part of a bigger team, a very big team. Um, but also I was kind of on trial the whole time. I think for most of my career, that’s probably been the experience that, um, I’ve been trying to be in the boat race and then in the Olympics and then to be in the Volvo Ocean race. So I get watched a lot. I have coaches quite a lot. I have to absorb information, but also to take feedback and give feedback. And I think probably one of my biggest lessons from my career in sport is kind of how to receive and how to give feedback. And, you know, for me having a debrief, that’s something. We would debriefed every single day. We train that without a doubt. I think that’s something I’ve realised now going into companies sometimes that perhaps people do debrief, but it’s much less infrequent, and it can then be more personal. I think in sport you get so used to it, you know, someone telling you if you’ve done something well or badly. It’s much less emotional because it’s just something you do every single day. Um, so I think how to debrief well, how to give and how to receive feedback is absolutely fundamental to improving your performance. And almost, there’s no point going out on the water for a day training If you’re not going to have a debriefing, you know, look at how to improve the next day.
00:06:42 – 00:07:00
I can see that would be totally invaluable in business, and I might have to come to separately So you can teach me how to give and take feedback because it’s a big area of weakness for me. And yet I have run businesses and I have led teams. Are you finding that that is an area of weakness when you do work with organisations?
00:07:00 – 00:08:09
Yeah, I think it’s an area weakness. But just because it’s something that hasn’t it’s not in the DNA of the company. It’s not sort of ingrained, and, you know, the more you do something, the more you get used to it for sure. So I think it’s just that as practise makes perfect, I think also when you say, debrief people tend to think of some sort of three hour gruelling process, and I don’t necessarily mean that with the sort of racing I’ve done at the Olympics. The event that I was competing in our races for about 12 minutes and sometimes we could do 10 of those in a day and sometimes we only have about five minutes between each race. So we had to find a way or a process of kind of debriefing and working out what we’re going to change for the next race and doing that in about three minutes whilst we’re trying to rehydrate, have a bite to eat, get your breath back and maybe change into a different boat. So it’s Yeah, it’s it is difficult, but actually, if you find the right way of doing it, it’s much, much easier. So I think partly in companies, it’s just understanding the different ways there are debriefing and it doesn’t need to be this kind of full 360 gruelling process every single time.
00:08:09 – 00:08:14
Love it, love that. What makes a successful team in your view?
00:08:14 – 00:11:35
That’s an excellent question. I’ve been in all different kinds types of teams, obviously with the British team for the Olympics were all from the same country doesn’t make you the same, but generally from the same background. Um And then when I when I went into the ocean race, I was in a very international team. My first team was all girls, but we’re from all around the world. Yeah, so the sort of language and culture, but also, perhaps more importantly, from very different sort of sailing backgrounds. One of the girls had come from fishing boats in Papua New Guinea. I come from very sort of academic background more traditional background. How do you all learn together and how do you all work together. I think, um, from from the ocean racing experience is definitely that everybody in the team, whether they’re the athletes on the boat, we also have a big shore crew on the land helping to prepare the boat. Everyone has to feel valued. Everyone has to have a role, and everyone has to really respect the role that everyone’s playing. And it doesn’t matter if you’re one of the cleaners or the admin staff or you’re the skipper. Everyone has a value and has a place in the team, and everyone else needs to respect that. So I think it’s really important and, you know, if you have it. So the most junior person in your team feels completely part of the team and completely respected. They will work so hard for the team. Um, if they don’t have that and they feel like they’re just one of the staff, it’s a very different feeling of the team. So I think, yeah, the mutual respect. I think the other really important thing is, uh, that everyone understands the goal and they have the same goal. Sounds a bit stupid because you could assume perhaps, if you’re going to the Olympics, everyone in your team wants to go and win an Olympic gold medal. But that might not be the case. And so I think it has to be very clear when you start that is the goal and and how and why do you want to win that gold medal that needs to be shared. That needs to be the same, because if it’s different, you know, um, one person is trying to get famous and someone else is trying to win a gold medal. It won’t work, so you need to be very clear on the goal. And, uh, I suppose my third point if I had at my third point would be the leadership of the team. Um, it’s very hard to have a fantastic team without a very good leader. Um, I don’t think that needs to be someone who has all of the knowledge and all of the power. I think a good leader to me is someone who brings out the best of everyone else. And while there needs to be a hierarchy, I think you know, in any team of a decent size, there’s got to be a bit of a hierarchy about who’s taking decisions. It’s really important to me that everyone else in the team has a voice, and I think the best things I’ve been in a while, the leaders let sometimes the most junior people lead. If they’re the strongest, you know if they have the most experience or they have a good idea. Um, I love that. I think I learned that earlier on with my Olympic team. One of the girls in my team was only 18 when we went to the Olympics and I was much older and you know, sometimes when you’re 18 actually don’t have very much fear. You don’t have all this weight of experience. So sometimes her ideas were fantastic and we just needed to listen to her because we had all these oh that won’t work. You know, we know from experience it doesn’t work. But sometimes that youth brings something really new and, um, new opportunities to the team.
00:11:35 – 00:12:35
All of this is fantastic both for sport, but also for business. I can see the sort of the comparisons, you know, to listen to some of the younger people. Clearly, the three points you made about respect having a goal that everybody is clear and understands and is the same and that leadership having that right leader absolutely important. So vital. Really good lessons there. Um okay, so I know. You know, in the past, I’ve been in organisations and I think it’s different when you’re in a very small boat and, you know, in the middle of the water where it’s dangerous But I’ve been in organisations where we’re a team and we haven’t got on, you know, we might not like each other. Might not agree. Um and I know sometimes especially women. When we get together, we can be quite cruel to each other. We say we will support, but we can be a bit nasty. Um, So what happens then? If you’re stuck in a boat and suddenly two of the people don’t get on, all three of you don’t get on or you can see there’s a bit of a disagreement and you’ve got to do a month offshore. What on earth happens then?
00:12:35 – 00:15:43
Yeah, I think it’s a really good point that it doesn’t always work, however. Well, you plan your your team and, you know, have much effort you put into recruitment and also having sort of, you know, maybe a charter. Things go wrong, especially when you’re tired and things are pressurised. And this was a big lesson for me from the Olympics, really? Then going into ocean racing because the Olympics is very hard. There’s a lot of pressure, but fundamentally, every day we got to come off the water, have a debrief with our coach, you know, perhaps go and see the physio, have a nice meal, the ocean race. Sometimes it’s a nine month race around the world, sometimes the legs so the timer at sea is over 30 days. You can’t get off that boat. You never stop racing day or night. In fact, you’re also on shifts. You don’t even see everyone. It’s kind of weird. There is never a moment to sit down and have a nice debrief with an outside coach. Also. Yeah, we’re very short on sleep sometimes only getting about two hours every 24 hours, which is broken up. Um, we’re living on freeze dried food. So there’s no, you know, all the kind of life’s pleasures have gone. Um, and that makes you really tired and really grumpy. Yeah. Um, so I think on the ocean most I learned a different way to deal with the problem. I think in the Olympics, if we had an issue between us, you know, we would normally bring in the team psychologist. We would approach it in the way that probably most people in businesses would imagine. The ocean race. You couldn’t do that when you’re at sea, um, and at the beginning, I thought, OK, I need to find someone to talk to in the team, to be able to deal with the problem with someone else. In fact, there’s no space. We don’t have any rooms. You know, doors are very heavy. We’re worried about weight, there’s nowhere to go, Um, and then also everything you do that isn’t making the boat go faster. It’s kind of a waste of energy when you’re so short on sleep. So that actually sort of became my mantra offshore. And if I had a problem with someone, first of all, I would really run it in my head and decide if I fix this. Are they annoying me? And that is the thing they’re doing is that making us slower? Is that actually going to affect our performance? And be really, really honest with this? Because I will only bring up this issue and kind of talk to them about it if it’s fundamentally going to make the boat go faster, if it won’t make the boat go faster. And I can’t measure this in the performance of our boat and we have our performance, Poehler’s we’re measuring all the time, our speed, then. Actually, I just need to kind of swallow it. It’s actually my issue. I need to learn how to be able to deal with it. and that frustration, Um, and you just get on with the job, Really? So I suddenly found I had a lot less issues than I thought, because, you know, and perhaps, yes, if someone’s annoying you a bit, it does affect your own performance. But that’s not That wasn’t a valid reason. It had to be something that you know concretely was making us slower as a team. So that was one way I dealt with it offshore, and that was really internalising it and asking myself the question if I could sort of handle it. I don’t think you have to like the people you work with to to do well. I think it’s, you know, you can go to the Olympics with someone you don’t like. You don’t want to go to the bar with, but you have to respect them. So you need a mutual respect. You don’t You don’t need to be best friends to be a great team.
00:15:43 – 00:16:51
That, for me was incredibly powerful. That statement about you know I should only bring it up fundamentally. It stops the boat going faster, and you can apply that to whatever goal you’ve got in your business. or in your life in your relationship even, you know, Do I need to bring the fact up that my man loads the dishwasher in a certain way and I load it in a different way? Will it make our relationship stronger? And do you know what that is? Such a good way of internalising and thinking about asking the question. And if your business is to you know, your goal and your business is to achieve something, will my pointing out this member of the team that they’re doing it this way? Will it, fundamentally, affect that is incredibly powerful. Um, if you know, you’ve given me a gift there. I think anybody listening in has has had an incredible gift. It’s made me think about things very differently. I am curious to know. So if you’ve stayed in touch with your team that you were, you know you did your your ocean. Um uh, ocean voyage. What? I call it Ocean Race does experience that nine month experience. Have you stayed in touch?
00:16:51 – 00:19:01
Yeah, it’s a good question. Um, so my first race around the world I’ve actually done twice. The first one was an all female team and it was quite significant with the first all female team in a very long time in 16 years since the boats have become much more powerful and faster. So it was a hard campaign, we’re very inexperienced and also I think a lot of people doubted us. Um and of course it was stressful and we didn’t all love each other at times, and I also didn’t manage to stick to my own sort of a charter there. I mean, of course, you know you want to be the best teammate you can, but it’s hard. So sometimes I think I felt myself and them. But having said that, yes, we have all stayed in contact, of course, some probably more than others. But I am in contact with everyone that I sail around the world with, and I mean they will always hold a very special place we’re from all around the world. So Covid has been hard. I definitely haven’t seen a lot of them for for awhile. Um, and it’s quite funny because after we finished the race, we were in cows in the UK and we were all sitting down one evening having dinner and all of us were there. It was a few months afterwards, and we’re from different places in the world. But we come together to do this race, and, uh, one of the men were only racing men. Everyone else in the race was a guy came over and said, Oh, you know, you have you got some sort of sponsor commitment while you’re here having dinner together? Um, we said, Oh, because, Well, because, you know, we sail around the world together, and so we miss each other and we want to have dinner together. And to him, that seemed like such an alien concept. And then, you know, sort of realised that on the guy’s boats I looked at it and looked at the data, and actually there’s been quite a lot of crew changes over the nine months. They were obviously quite a lot of disagreements, and we were, in fact, the only team that had stayed the same for the entire race and all the training. And so as you said, people often said to us, our women’s team, you know you’re going to fight and fall out Well, yes, we did, but I think we always have found a way to get through that. And I think we always knew that it was more important that we did that to kind of keep the experience that we had rather than get rid of people. So, yes, we are very close. I think for all of us, that will be a special experience. And, um, yeah, I would invite them all to my wedding if I had one.
00:19:01 – 00:19:38
Well, well, that’s wonderful. That is really wonderful. And that’s an incredible story as well. The fact that yours was the only team that all sail together and it is, and it’s showing women we do tend to tell each other as it is, don’t we? We do. We do talk, and we do argue, and then we sort it out. Um, that’s interesting to so many. If you’re listening, have a chat. Sort it out. Don’t change the team. All right? So not only have you had to deal with personalities and, um, you know, sort of those kinds of issues. I was shocked to learn that you broke your back. Tell me the story about that.
00:19:38 – 00:22:49
In my second ocean race. I was actually with a mixed team this time. Uh, there was two girls on board anyway, were nine of us on board? Um, and we were racing in the Southern Ocean, which is as a sailor, I suppose, somewhere you really want to go. And also you really don’t want to go. It’s going around the cape of Good Hope around South Africa. And then also the other leg we do is around Cape Horn around South America. Anyway, we were sailing from Cape Town to Melbourne, and you don’t go straight. You go as far south as you can, because the further south you go basically the windier it gets and the faster, you go. But it also gets a lot colder. And so they put in a kind of an imaginary line where the ice is because we’re trying not to sail in and out of icebergs too much, not seeing that everyone’s seen the titanic’s not ideal. I do. Um, anyway, so we were halfway between Cape Town and Melbourne, but very far in the Southern Ocean. And we got hit by a big wave. I am harnessed on. Everyone needs to be harnessed on. We go very fast and I got washed the back of the boat and I Well, I knew I’d broken something. I hadn’t really felt that before. I remember then lying in my bunk, I had to get sort of dragged below by my team and the navigator’s saying, You know, lush, that’s my surname you better come good. We’re still only halfway through this leg, and the thing is in the Southern Ocean. What’s significant, I suppose, is that at that moment, probably one of the closest people to me on the planet is someone in space because that’s how far you are from land. Uh, when you look at a map, you don’t suppose appreciate that when you sail across the ocean, you realise it. So the Southern Ocean no one is down there. You can’t send a helicopter, It’s too far away. You can’t send a plane. A ship would be weeks away, and most ships, if they’re sensible, would never come down there. So the only way to get home is to sail home. So the uncomfortable part of that experience was I broke my back, and then I still had 10 days left on this boat that yeah, moving around, um, to get until we got to Melbourne I suppose that the other thing was that I didn’t know I broke my back. We didn’t have a sort of CT scanner or something on board? Um, but I suppose I knew I had done something bad, but after a few days, watching my teammates getting more and more tired, it’s very hard sailing down there. It’s having someone out of the watch system because they’re injured. It puts a lot more strain on the rest of the team. So everyone was looking very tired. They were freezing. Um, and I sort of convinced myself that I needed to go back on deck. So I actually got back on deck and was sailing for the last five days. And we arrived in Melbourne and got taken to the hospital to get checked. And you know the doctor said, What are you doing? You’ve actually broken three bones in your foot and one your back. You should be completely immobilised. Um, but the last five days, I’d just been back on deck, kind of grinding and going up on the foredeck. Um, so I suppose that was quite a lesson in sort of mental versus physical, I suppose. Health and pain and somehow I managed to just kind of I didn’t really feel the pain anymore, just kind of blocked it. About a week later, it all came and I felt it. But I suppose, Yeah, it’s quite incredible what the body can do with some adrenaline inside it.
00:22:49 – 00:22:58
Wow, that is absolutely amazing. That’s phenomenal. You were lucky you probably didn’t do permanent damage by, you know, by sailing with a broken back. Can you imagine?
00:22:58 – 00:23:59
Yeah. I know, you’re absolutely right. And when I when I went to the team meeting after I’d been to the hospital and now I had my leg and sort of cast and crutches and goodness knows what else? And I was supposed to be pretty much immobilised. One of my teammates said to me, you know, I think there’s a fine line between tough and stupid, and I think you’ve crossed it to me. The best summary. I mean, you’re absolutely right. I shouldn’t have gone back on deck, and I probably knew that I had done something and I think I felt to be honest, I felt very guilty letting the team down, not being on deck. And there was probably also an element. It was the first time I was with much more experienced, mostly male crew. I felt very kind of excited and honored to be on board, and I just desperately wanted to keep that job and keep doing it. Um, but it wasn’t the right thing to do. Could have, You know, I could put myself in a lot of danger if the fracture had displaced with an internal organ. That’s the problem offshore. If there’s internal bleeding, basically, that’s it. And it would have put the team in a lot of jeopardy as well. So yeah, definitely didn’t do the right thing.
00:23:59 – 00:24:14
Well, thank goodness the universe looked after you. That’s one that brought you back safely. That’s wonderful and brought you back to create the Magenta project. We heard a little bit about that in the introduction. Tell me about why you created it and tell us a little bit more about what it is.
00:24:14 – 00:26:46
So after I raced around the world with Team SDA, which is the all female crew in 2014-15, I think we really felt we started a bit of momentum. We were the first female team for a long time to be in the ocean race. Maybe people have heard of Maiden and Tracy Edwards, you know, was actually the first crew to do it a long time before that. But then the boats got much faster, much sort of harder physically to sail. And I think people thought women couldn’t, which has happened a lot in sailing. When I actually started my career, Um, you know, I wanted to go to the Olympics because I wanted to be in the America’s Cup. In fact, since I’ve started becoming a professional sailor there’s never been another woman again in the America’s Cup because technology has moved on and there’s always this kind of physical argument in our sport, which I don’t think is true and having now done the ocean race and mixed teams, I’m pretty sure it’s not true, especially when it’s about resilience and kind of long term strength, which actually women seem to be quite good at. And I think that’s quite well documented. But also sailing has many other roles. You know, there’s yeah, it’s a very tactical sport. It’s not just about physicality, So if you look at the top level of sailing and professional sailing, there’s very few women and there isn’t really a good reason why. But I think it’s mostly just not having had the opportunity and experience. So really, the Magenta Project. We set it up with the girls from Team SDA to try and grow that network. It’s about providing opportunities for girls coming through. Perhaps they have Olympic medals, but very high calibre girls, but they just don’t have the opportunity to keep moving on in professional sailing. Um, and I think it’s the same as an industry. It’s about having that network and about having role models and people that can help you mentors that can bring you into events and and provide open those doors for you. So we’ve done it through a lot of different sort of means. One is we have a big mentoring programme, also kind of just building the network online and trying to open up sort of relationships with organisations and teams and through other female sailors. But we also provide direct training and clinics where we try to give girls opportunities on the kind of boats and then the kind of teams they wouldn’t normally get the chance to sort of step on. Because if you haven’t had the experience and you haven’t at least had a go on a really big boat or in a new environment, you’re not going to be any good when you turn up for a trial. So, um yeah, I love it. I love the energy that all the mentees bring into it. And the ideas that a lot of these girls coming through have. And they’re way better than our ideas.
00:26:46 – 00:26:50
Brilliant. Love that. Love that. Okay, what’s next?
00:26:50 – 00:27:46
A million dollar question. Always good. Actually, one thing changed since my last ocean race, and a year later, despite having broken my back, I was back in hospital having a child. So I have a little girl who’s just turned three. And as I think, most people watching this as parents, you’ll know that changes things quite a bit, Um definitely much harder to go off travelling around the world sailing than it was. But having said that, I am signed with the team for the next race. Everything’s been slightly delayed because of covid, but yeah, we plan to be doing another race around the world in January. Um, it’s a slightly shorter race because the boats are now much faster. They’re on foils, which means they kind of fly, which is a bit scary, but fast. Um, and I very much hope we’ll finish finding fundraising to get this team to the line.
00:27:46 – 00:28:04
And then this January 2023 then fantastic. So if anybody wants to contribute and help sponsor, they can. You heard about it here. And, uh, we’re a great woman to sponsor because, you know, she can sail with a broken back, she’s not gonna let you down. My goodness. My goodness. Fantastic. Sorry I cut you off. Did you want to have something else?
00:28:04 – 00:28:38
No, I just I think, like perhaps a lot of people, Um, yeah, this will be a new experience for me. Sort of fine. I’m very nervous to also be at sea. And obviously not with my daughter though I should be with my husband. So I think finding that line in sort of parenthood between being 100% in your career and also being a parent is probably what I’m really working on now. And yeah, and certainly asking lots of other women. They’re not very many who have been in my position in the sport, but yeah, certainly career women as well. So how you how you balance that.
00:28:38 – 00:28:48
Okay, super. Anybody got any answer to that question? We’re interested to hear it. Get in touch with Annie and thank you so much. Thank you very much indeed. I hope you enjoyed yourself, and it wasn’t too painful.
00:28:48 – 00:28:52
Brilliant. Thank you very much. Now I want to ask you lots of questions.
00:28:52 – 00:29:29
Okay? We’ll do that afterwards. But in the meantime, let me thank everybody for listening to the speakers show. If you enjoy this episode, please leave a rating on apple podcasts. And you can keep up with future episodes on the Speakers Associates website, which is speakersassociates.com or your favourite podcast app. And if you would like to invite Annie to come and speak at your next event, she’s got so many stories. So much great great content for you that will also applies to business. Please contact speakers associates in plenty of time to book her so you won’t be disappointed, Okay? And bear in mind, she’ll be away sailing from January 2023. Bye bye for now. I’ll see you next week.
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Maria Franzoni is an established and recognised speaking industry expert and one of the most experienced speaker bookers in Europe.
As well as working with speakers, Maria also hosts live shows and podcasts. She currently hosts The Speaker Show podcast for Speakers Associates.