Episode #127

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (00:04): Hello. This podcast is care of Speakers Associates, the global speaker bureau representing a select group of the world’s finest thinkers and thought leaders. Founded in 1999, today Speakers Associates operate out of nine offices across seven countries covering the UK, Europe and Middle East. I’m Sean Pillot de Chenecey, author of the Post-Truth Business and Influences & Revolutionaries. In this series, I interview a range of fascinating individuals, proudly represented by the bureau. These change agents and industry experts give an update on their specialists, areas of knowledge, and also on their motivations and viewpoints regarding the future of business. Today, I’m really pleased to be joined by Klisman Murati. He’s a thought leader and advisor on world affairs and global trends. He’s also the owner of this specialist, consultancy Pangaea Wire Group. He’s a frequent face for international news media and has given his analysis and opinions on several of the most important global challenges and events like Brexit, Middle East Intentions, geopolitics, and counter-terrorism. As an expert on human decision making and strategy, he applies his knowledge to topics like global trends, blockchain and political risk, and is sought after by many. Klisman also serves as an expert advisor to the European Commission and has assisted the UK parliament on human rights and security issues.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (01:40): His work has been referenced by the EU commission and has been quoted alongside form as CIA directors, and has also consulted for the Pentagon in the U.S. Air Force on out of space defense. And after that absolutely spectacular series of, sort of accolades and sort of introductory issues which absolutely superb, Klisman. Welcome.

Klisman Murati (02:02): Thank you. Thank you, Sean. I almost didn’t recognize you were talking about when you gave that introduction.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (02:07): It’s incredibly impressive.

Klisman Murati (02:08): Thank you so much.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (02:08): So tell me, so here we are in 2020, and you obviously come from a really, really interesting and quite spectacular, sort of a series of background areas of specialization, but as we’re looking at 2020 and how things are rolling out, what are the key things that really fascinate you and that you are tending to talk about at conferences at the moment?

Klisman Murati (02:33): Thanks for the question. So look, Sean, the thing that I think to begin with that everyone needs to realize when you’re in the field of business, is that before you could probably get away knowing one field, one part of your field, you are a banker and you have banking worked in new maths. In this world, in this day and age, I don’t think you can solely rely on one discipline to help answer such complex issues in the world. My background, I come from a background, an academic background of anthropology, human rights and security studies. So that gives me, I think, a much more, colorful background in helping my clients help helping them understand what the world issues are. And as part of my work, I typically help financial services firms, understand what the key geopolitical changes are in this world, and also help them understand global trends, such as technological transformation, societal change.

Klisman Murati (03:24): And what’s the last one I can’t remember now. One more, so that’s what I do. And in 2020, I think something that we’ve seen prop up quite a lot, and it’s been coming from previous years, the rise of geopolitical risk. That’s something that every business, no matter what part of the world you’re in will be affected by. And if firms don’t really have a grasp on what’s happening around the world, then they’ll be at risk on understanding it and falling, foul to the unexpected strategies that will come up cause of it.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (03:53): And so when you’re talking about this and in terms of making these points sort of actionable for the audience, what sort of audiences are you tending to speak in front of? I mean, who are the people who are most able and if you say genuinely interested and able to take, sorry, say actions out of the advice you’re given.

Klisman Murati (04:15): Well, as the world becomes more globalized, I find many audiences who want to go global need to understand these kinds of things. Typically I’ve spoken to the financial services firms because that’s what I’ve had a relationship with in the past, as investments grow and become more globalized. As you try to find new markets to grow your money, you come into contact with uncertain market dynamics. You don’t really understand them, but you see opportunities there. So that’s where I help bridge the gap for them to understand what is happening, geopolitically, what their future will hold, how their society is moving forward. And also as the people come out of poverty more and more what the consumer demands will be in these parts of the world, helping them understand that is a big plus for them because they feel more confident making more smart and more profitable investing decisions.

Klisman Murati (05:00): That’s what they’re after at the end of the day. But as geopolitics grows, I think we see industries. I’m sure you will agree with this. We see industries and clients that, before never really had to care about certain issues, but now, because as a world grows more complex, they need to care about them. A perfect example, I think, is the fashion industry. And I’ve spoken to some of these guys in the past before. Now, as, for example, as clients want to sell more into China, for example. We see in the past last year, in fact, many brands getting into trouble by producing branding clothing, which went, which offended the Chinese quite a bit, something that they, the brands themselves didn’t really grasp too much in the first place. But after the fact, they saw big effects on their stock market on their stock. They also saw brand ambassadors from those countries pull out of agreements. And we also boycotting of their clothing, by the Chinese. So these issues are not new issues, but they are issues that people need to get a hold of if they wanna send to global markets, you know.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (05:59): And in terms of, and I know you travel a great deal, where is this sort of information landing best? So when you, if you are dropping into a convention or a Congress, you know, in various parts of the planet, are people tending to take your advice and action it quicker in certain parts of the world or you getting pushback more again on the negative side, perhaps in other parts of the world. Talk to me about that in terms of,

Klisman Murati (06:28): That’s really, that’s a really interesting question because you find that certain parts of the world have been appreciation something understanding more than others, but I’ll give you a great example. I gave a talk in November last year in Dubai to a room full of asset managers, family offices, and investment managers in general. And there were all of the 90% of them were probably based in the Middle East and in Dubai themselves. So me coming in trying to help them understand their part of the world, I thought, how would they take it? Will they really under, will they really see the value in it? Or will I tell them something that they already know? So my job was to give a keynote and also to give a workshop the next day. And the keynote was basically trying to explain that, you know, something that’s very common, very well understood in the Middle East, that oil revenues can’t for the next 20 to 30 years, can’t be the only kind of revenue they have in these parts of the world.

Klisman Murati (07:18): They need to grow their diversity in terms of where they get them, their money from. And they need to promote themselves not only as oil nations, but they need to find their own USP as individual countries and play to their own advantages. And I gave five points of how they have done this in the past and what they need to do to formulate where they stand in the market in the next 20 to 30 years. And because the room was full of, asset managers who were from that part of the world, I was curious to find out what they thought it would talk, but I had people coming up afterwards saying all of these things are very interesting. We really didn’t really understand it the way you explained it, not to give myself a pat on the back. But I think the way I explained the topics was very interesting.

Klisman Murati (07:58): And when it came time to the actual workshop, I think was even more interesting because we had investors even from Iran, for example, from the UAE, from Saudi, also from America and Britain, from Cypress too. And it was funny how, you know, the American representatives really wanted to, they had certain questions that people from Middle East thought were very obvious.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (08:17): Wow.

Klisman Murati (08:17): So even amongst these two groups that I was speaking to, you know, hosting the workshop, they had different ideas of what it meant, what development means, for example, where they see prosperity in their own country moving forward, and what the main geopolitical risks are, you know, the American representatives were a lot more, how can I explain. They were less confident in their analysis of that region, as opposed to those who lived in that region.

Klisman Murati (08:43): But the main question I got from those who were from that region was how do you price this risk? Because even though we’re part of it, we don’t know where the next moves are gonna be, even though we’re here.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (08:52): Sure.

Klisman Murati (08:52): So how do you price these risks into the market? This was something that they never really had to consider in the past because markets were very much at the embryonic stage, but as they become more advanced, as they become more global, these questions were questions that people in the west had for emerging markets. Now, these guys in the emerging markets are trying to figure that out themselves. So the conversations were similar in some aspects, but very different in others. So having that nuance in the room is very interesting from my point of view, to see what they had to say and to see where they thought the risks and opportunities were in the future.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (09:23): Yeah, absolutely fascinating. And what about, away from the specifics of the financial services sector? Are there other sectors where your advice is, again, more readily picked up than others?

Klisman Murati (09:37): As I said, financial services is one of them only because I’ve been involved with them in the past and I’m developing my portfolio as I grow, but I can see there’s a big need in understanding geopolitical risk and understanding societal change, in understanding transformative technology and globalization. No matter what industry you’re part of these four things will determine, will change and challenge the world the most in the next, let’s say 100 years. And no matter what core of the world you go to, you’ll find one of these for hitting them the hardest, but I sometimes also speak to people from trade finance, which again is financial services, I guess, but I find that this audience, because they’re so, they don’t focus on one industry. They’re very, they’re very plural in who they invest in and what they invest in. They need to really be kept on their toes with what’s happening.

Klisman Murati (10:22): So I find the conversations I’ve had I have with these guys are the most fruitful. Sometimes when I speak to others in other industries, they have an opinion, perhaps that I know more about my industry than you do, which I think is rightfully so, but what they may not see is what I see standing from standing outside of their industry. I can see what’s happening and I can perhaps infer what they should be looking at more so than others. But as I grow as a speaker, and as I grow as a consultant, no doubt I’ll be faced with different industries and different people who need to understand these things. And the richer, my understanding is of the world, the richer my analysis can be for them.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (10:56): Okay. And then what about one often sort of hears about an, obviously, an accusation that when you’re looking at the financial services sector from an innovation perspective, that if you look, let’s say, first of all, in a different sector, purely, let’s say IT, you know, it tended to be the case that Silicon Valley was deified, you know, 10 years ago as being the center of the world. This is where it’s all ticking off. And then that’s faded in many people’s eyes in terms of the lack of genuine innovation coming out of the west coast. Meanwhile, in terms of financial services innovation, a lot of people were saying, actually, don’t look at the States, you know, look at the other side of the world, you’re looking the wrong direction. You look at what these guys are up to over in Asia. And it’s just incredible.

Klisman Murati (11:42): That’s right. I’ll tell you something. I, as you probably well know, last week it was the UK Africa Investment Summit. Hosted in London, Boris Johnson hosted it for the majority of African leaders and African businessmen. And we can see technology innovation happening there to an extent where we don’t see in the west, they already have 5gs in some proper parts of Africa. For example, in Kenya, they have 5g already. So I find that they’re moving at a different pace because they haven’t developed the structures, which the west had developed in the past. So they are forced to innovate out of necessity. That’s where innovation comes out of, but this is a great kind of road into one of the main things I love to discuss with different political scientists and also people in industry.

Klisman Murati (12:24): And I think it, I’ll explain it in the bare bones. When people speak about America’s dominance in world affairs, you know, since world war two, it’s obviously been a big player and probably the hegemonic player in all, in power plays. And there’s a tendency to believe that the reason why geopolitics is such a big issue now is because America’s taken step back and they’re not the policemen of the world anymore, which is allowed other places to take, to be more opportunistic in their foreign policy ambitions. That’s the stance that many people have and I’ve seen it and I’ve read it. And I couldn’t agree less. I mean, I don’t know if that came out, but I, my thinking is diametrically opposed to that argument. The fact that you think that the reason why the world is more, more in chaos is because America’s, you know, hand of power has been relinquished, I think is very shortsighted.

Klisman Murati (13:17): And also, doesn’t give credit to world development. The way I think about is this America, I think had the blueprint of what it takes to develop a super economy, you know, with industry and with a educated workforce and with products and services that the world wanted. It sort of showed the world perhaps how to do it, right, I guess you call it. But as the world, as each country, each region developed their own economies, they managed to keep themselves afloat. So if you take, for example, the Middle East, they weren’t such a big global player in the past, but as their oil revenue grew, they were able to maintain themselves. And as their money grew, their ambitions of what they believed they can achieve on the international stage also grew, which they now have the capital to deploy in different parts of the world to not only develop themselves, but to use other countries in directing foreign direct investment in other parts of the world.

Klisman Murati (14:12): So this time that America had, wasn’t a bad thing for the rest of the world, they just didn’t develop at the same pace that the states did. They didn’t have the capability, they didn’t have the manpower. They were poverty strictly in many parts of the world. But as technology developed, it gave the average work person, an ability to move out of poverty and to grow and to develop. This happens at the micro with the people, and it also happens at the macro, with the actual nations, nations grew, they developed economically. They develop industry, they develop products and services. And now that they’re, now they’re at a stage where they cannot only have an effect in their own country, but they can also have an effect in other parts of the world, also with their neighbors.

Klisman Murati (14:51): Which is why things like the African union is growing as strong as it is. Which is why unions in Asia are growing as strong as they, that’s why the GCC is growing as big as it is because they have the financial capital. And not only because America’s taken its foot off the pedal, but because they have the ability to grow and develop, because with that time that America was dominant. So we will continue to see this as the world, as the world continues to grow and develop, and we will see, you know, how can I say, we will see, centers of power develop in different parts of the world. China obviously is a big one, Brazil in south America, Iran in Saudi Arabia, in the Middle East, Russia where it is, the European union is trying to figure itself out.

Klisman Murati (15:29): It’s having a bit of an identity crisis itself, now. But we will see senses of power developing in different parts of the world. Not because America has said, you’re allowed to now, but because they have the ability to do so. And they’ve been training for this since World War II. Because you have to remember that back in world, during the Cold War, it was the Soviets, and it was the west. There were the two big powerplays and America and the west dominated. And they beat out on the south Soviet Union. And me coming from a post Soviet country, I can attest to how much it’s changed in that part of the world.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (16:01): Oh, sure. I mean, talking later on about Albania and just how much it’s changed to quite a staggering degree of the last sort of, you know, decade, let alone couple of decades. So the interesting point you’re making about looking back to the second world war, and something’s often talked about in business schools is, you know, the Coca-Cola model. Which almost was, you know, behind the frontline troops during the second world war, there would be a Coca-Cola distribution network being set up. So on one side, it was great to give the fighting troops a taste of home. But meanwhile, literally as the grenades are being thrown, as someone leaping in signing up deals to do their future distribution, you know, but then what about, meanwhile, you are, let’s say, well, we’re on that topic. You’ll view of things like the Chinese belt and road initiative. And how they’re for instance, talking about Africa. So, you know, making inroads into Africa. And now to Europe in Greece, you know, et cetera. So what are your viewpoints on that?

Klisman Murati (16:53): I think China’s growing at a extraordinary rate, and it’s only, if you just see the actual makeup of the country, it’s got a population at 1.4 billion, I think last time I checked. So it’s actual ability to grow and develop because of they have the numbers, my part to do so. And they’ve had a very interesting history as well with them having communism and now sort of it being remixed to sort of free market communism. I don’t how to really explain China’s development, but it’s sort of a remix between the both. Because I think they they’ve been pragmatic in their approach. They’ve kept the political side alive for their own necessity, but they’ve allowed the country to develop through quasi free market principles for its own power and its own development. And now, as we see it growing, we can see, again, its ability to have an effect in different parts of the world and to grow its vision of what it sees itself in the next 50 years. Each major country growing up now has sort of a vision 2030, a vision 2045, you know, a made in China vision.

Klisman Murati (17:50): 2030 is something that they have. So they have put out a blueprint of where they see themselves going, how are they gonna get there? It’s for everyone to see? You know, and I think we need to, we, as it, as an investor, for example, you need to really take time to understand not only the economics of a country, but it’s geopolitics, it’s culture, where it’s been in the past, how it’s developed, how they see themselves and how they see themselves in relation to the world. Because they have the ability to be ambitious. And now they have the psychology to do so. And they’re gonna do that. And we’re gonna see a lot more talk in the news in the media about Chinese development of technology. We’re gonna see a lot more talk about Chinese development in terms of geopolitics.

Klisman Murati (18:37): We can see the issues of Hong Kong happening now. But something that I think is interesting also is when something like the coronavirus pops up, how do nations respond to that? This may seem a bit left field from what the conversation, we’re having now, but to see how it really, really tests the world, the world’s response and their ability to see China objectively. Because, and by, in one hand, we have a nation which has grown from a situation, which you can never imagine growth in the past, being a communist nation, it’s never been expansionist in its ambitions ever. China’s never wanted to expand its way to Japan, to South Korea out anywhere else. It’s always been internally developed, but we can see a change now where you can see, as you mentioned above the belt road initiative, doing its own thing, and they’re changing their psychology.

Klisman Murati (19:27): What they see is possible. You see Xi Jinping as sort of a leader for life. So they have the scope and the time to develop a longer term view because their system is in, is such, which they can do. So the west changes its leaders every four to five years. So their ambitions and their, they pivot every so often, they don’t have consistent foreign policy. They don’t have consistent foreign direct investment policy. It’s always changing with the leadership. And the best example now is we see with president Trump, you know, taking the 180 from the views of the Obama administration.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (19:57): Yeah, yeah, exactly, of which more later.

Klisman Murati (20:01): Exactly. You can talk about that.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (20:01): Yeah, exactly. What about, to come back to a very sort of like a, sort of a personal and human aspect of this, so, you know, inspirations for you, you know, so either was there some sort of you, some sort of catalytic moments some Damascene conversion when you thought, right. This is what I wanna do. This is who I wanna be. What happened or who was it? Was it a thing? Was it a place?

Klisman Murati (20:26): Sure. That that’s a good question. Look, I think many people who come from the part of the world or from Eastern Europe may understand this better than others. Where I came from was a country, which has been under communism for the last, since he was there for about 60 years. Right. So already it’s had such a different psychology to a democracy, before that it’s gone through different stages of oppression. It’s been different stages of people trying to take it over or having a monarchy for about 10 years or so.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (20:58): Of course.

Klisman Murati (20:59): So it’s gone through all kinds of political changes. So now when democracy came through in the early nineties, it changed the system again, but it changed the system in a way, which was conducive to what the west was, which was a democracy. And the west had a longer experience of democracy than the Vulcan nations or even Eastern Europe has had.

Klisman Murati (21:19): So when that happened, we saw a mass Exodus of people. So already I was born into sort of a geopolitical chaos. If you can say that, sort of, the conversations around the dinner table were mostly about politics, were mostly about how the country’s changing. What are the social factors? What are the political factors? What are the economic factors that will cause our survival or our demise? So that these were conversations, I was hearing since the child around the dinner table with my uncles and my family and my aunts. This was the com, this was sort of, what’s the weather like, you know, we weren’t talking about the weather we were talking about. What it was like in Albania? What’s happening? How is it gonna develop? Who’s the next leader is? What our relations are gonna be like with our neighbors now? As it add to change, you know, the whole world went not turned upside down.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (22:02): Yeah.

Klisman Murati (22:02): So I come from that pedigree. I come from that pedigree of coming from, speaking about topics which I’ve experienced myself. So seeing first time, what it’s like to come from a country, which has been destroyed, you know, politically. Economically as well, you know. After 1991, in 1997, we had a civil war. We had pyramid schemes that were set up. You know, by, you know, shady actors. And when they collapsed, we saw ourselves, civil war happening. Every, all everyone’s savings were gone like this. You know, so what do you expect from people who have had such tumult, such crazy things happening throughout their lives it’s gonna affect your psycho side. It’s gonna affect your psychology. And it’s gonna affect the way you see the world. I’ve managed to channel that into a way where I wanted to understand how nations grew? How they developed? How they interacted with one another? Adding that, adding the economic layer to adding the technological layer to it.

Klisman Murati (22:55): Adding the social layer to it, makes for an, a tasty pie. You know, on that pie I like to serve out in my keynotes. In my consulting and in any kind of business transaction I do. I think understanding where someone comes from, their background, the geopolitics of their nation can’t be stressed enough. That’s how you understand their makeup as an individual.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (23:15): Yeah. Yeah.

Klisman Murati (23:15): And that’s what caused you to be effective in your consulting and your keynotes, or just to give another boring talk, you know? That’s the secret source, I think. It comes from personal experience.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (23:24): Absolutely fantastic. Absolutely brilliant.

Klisman Murati (23:27): Because you can read a book all day long. But you, I mean, speaking to my father, for example, how it was like growing up, you can’t communism and reading it in a book, they’re two completely different things. You know, and you experience it very differently. So being from a part of the world, which has seen so much change. Me being, going through so much change, you’re able to really understand and empathize and sympathize with companies who haven’t been used to it. You know, or nation, which haven’t really been as used to it. And you get to have a more valid opinion, you know?

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (23:59): It’s amazing. And then again, back to the specific issue of what’s happened to you right now, away from the deeply interesting theoretical and contextual background that you’ve been talking about, which is I think absolutely fascinating but in terms of literally what is,, you know, what’s in your diary for 2020? What’s coming up any sort of big things for you in terms of particular events you’re going to, or things you are doing or coming up?

Klisman Murati (24:28): Well, I’ve got my, I’m obviously being a keynote speaker. I’m booking up my diary for that. So that’s sort of generic, all speakers know how that works, you know. The hustle and bustle of that. Apart from that, I’m actually, I’m gonna start my own podcast, not interviewing speakers, but interviewing people from my field. So from financial services or from MPs, members of house and Lords, to other politicians, to policy makers to discuss these issues in these topics more. I had a podcast set up in the past in 2018, but as I, we spoke, before we be on air, it was really basic setup. So this is gonna be a lot more professional. I got the equipment. So from doing that, I’ve got some things which I can’t really talk about right now, but once it happen you will see them on LinkedIn.

Klisman Murati (25:09): I use LinkedIn as sort of my go-to platform to update people and to see what’s happening. But I’ve got some really interesting projects with some really interesting people there. I think the more you express to the world who you are and what you want to have happen. Things will come to you. As long as you put out, it sounds so, you know, it sounds so cheesy, but if you put out what you want, you will attach yourself to people who have, or around the same frequency you can really do great business with.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (25:35): Yeah. Yeah. Very much.

Klisman Murati (25:35): That’s what I really believe in. This is what I, this is, look, how did we come to speak today? You know, I put out, you know, when I spoke to Cosimo in the past and to Patrick, this is what I do. Let’s have a meeting. Okay. You’re great. You can do it. Let’s talk. You know, a few months down the line, let’s say there’s a protocol. Let’s have, I have conversation. I’m speaking with the, with Sean about all these interesting topics.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (25:57): No. Very, very good. And then what about in terms of the really specific point about conferences or congresses, conventions, whatever workshops, and again, you travel a great deal. You’re got a ton of these things. I know, you got a very good reputation for it. So when you, when you look back at events, you’ve been to, firstly, generally speaking conference world is often thought of as being most conferences are fairly deathly dull. You know, same old people saying the same old stuff as yet, whatever. It’s like another workshop, do we really have to? Meanwhile, some of them are genuinely brilliant. So the things that you’ve been to, do you look back and think, oh, that event was run amazingly well. And what made it different was X. So anything that you can share with us in terms of anecdotes of, you know, an event you spoke at that you just thought, wow, that was different.

Klisman Murati (26:49): Well, I don’t wanna offend any

Klisman Murati (26:52): But I’m not mentioning the ones I noticed, but what I will say is that I think what makes an event important is, is what people’s ambitions are. Some people come because it’s a day out of the office and they wanna come, they have some spare tickets, a company bought it. Some people generally come to learn more about what it is the speakers are speaking about. But I think the responsibility is on the speaker or the workshop leader to really provide value for the audience. Because someone can come in having no real ambition, no real, you know, they, they’re not expecting any, anything special. There’s plenty of those kinds of conferences out there. They just come, they sit down. It’s like a lecture back when you were in university made you fall asleep, but it’s up to the speaker themselves to provide value to the audience, to really know who they’re speaking to.

Klisman Murati (27:31): It’s on. The onus is on us to make sure we know the room, why they’re here and to deliver what they expect and more so. That makes it more interesting for you as a speaker or as a workshop leader or as a consultant. And that makes a whole lot more interesting for the actual audience themselves. And if an event organizer can see that, I think you’ll bring them value and it will allow them using you an example who they need to bring next time to make the event more special.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (27:56): Yeah. Yeah.

Klisman Murati (27:57): So they’re gonna start asking better questions next time to make sure they bring someone, not because they have a big name perhaps, or because they can, they can bring the value that Sean brought last time, or that Klisman brought last time. We like that conversation. We like the way that he or she interacted with the audience. So we’re gonna find people like that more. So it would allow you to be amongst peers who are like you in the value they bring and the energy they provide, which makes the experience better for everyone.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (28:20): Very good. You know, that’s a wonderful way of being to wrap things up. So in that case, last question, and it’s been brilliant. But we could, we’re trying to do these as sort of 30 minutes or whatever, you know, bite size, bits of content. So just so the Speakers Associates listener base, wherever they are listening to this. Be it in China or Philippines, Australia, whatever, you know, bits, the Middle East or US, to really summarize the elevator pitch, you know, why is it that they should be booking you? And what is it that you are bringing to an event that is so dynamic?

Klisman Murati (28:50): Yeah. Well, I’ll say one thing, if you like the conversation we had, if you found it interesting. If you find it intriguing, if you like the energy I bring, then I think this conversation is just an example of what I can do on stage. And the topics I cover I think are very relevant and they’re very well researched the way I do it. And my main thing is providing value beyond what the audience expects. And I really take time to understand who the audience is and engage them in ways, which I think are very special before the actual event starts when the event happens. I also post the event. So I keep in contact with the event organizers with perhaps their key clients who they’ve brought to hear or speak. And I’m able to provide value in that sense. Obviously I have a website up klismanmurati.com. I’m on YouTube, a bunch of videos on YouTube. So if you like what I see, if you like what I say, if you like the vibe I’m bringing, if you like the energy, then I think let’s have a conversation. See how we can work together.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (29:41): Fantastic.

Klisman Murati (29:41): Yeah.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (29:44): Klisman Murati, fascinating thought leader and advisor on world affairs and global trends.

Klisman Murati (29:49): Thank you very much.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (29:50): Thank you.

Klisman Murati (29:51): Thank you.

Sean Pillot de Chenecey (29:51): Thank you for listening to The Speakers Show Podcast. Please leave a rating on iTunes. We’d really appreciate it. And also it’d be great, if you could subscribe to the podcast itself. You’ll find it also on Google podcasts, SoundCloud, or your favorite podcast app. Thank you.